Tuesday, March 03, 2009

Predestination or free will

The brain storming started with Nabi Baksha's call at around 11'o clock in the night. He asked a  question which has been asked / discussed by thinking minds in the past, and will be, in future. And i admit I felt elated to be considered worthy of a philosophical question. 

If God does everything, if God ki marzi ke bina patta bhi nahi hilta, then why should humans be rewarded / punished for their actions.

Every aalim, every teacher, every preacher does his/her best to convince anybody who listens to them that whatever happens, God does it. "Karne vaala Allah hai", we are nothing, we are immaterial, insignificant nobodies. Anything and everything - He has complete control over - and He does it - we don't matter. And we, the good* people believe it - it becomes our faith (irrespective of our religions).

On the other hand the same teachers teach the same people (who listen to them) to do good things, to avoid bad things - and that every thing, including the smallest and the minutest of them, is being noted by the farishtas sitting on our shoulders, good acts by the right one, and bad by the left. And in the afterlife we shall reap what we sow here. "Dunia" is just an imtehaan period - main life is the Afterlife. 

These thoughts too - become our faith.

It doesn't take the brain of an Einstein to see that the two teachings are contradictory - in fact, they oppose each other. But since we invoke one or the other depending upon the situation we happen to be in, they work. Faced with -ves of life, we blame it on our fate / destiny / "God willed so" - and satisfy ourselves. Blessed with +ves, some of us take pride in our capability, our decisions ("our free will") and feel proud, feel happy, whereas more pious amongst us attribute these positives also to God - and things continue to function.

We are clever enough [or, predestined :)] to - first use free will to try to attain our aims (studying for IIT entrance - practising day and night for sports trails - thinking of new ways to woo the women /man of our dreams ... forgetting about preDestination at this point) - and take solace into God ordained destiny if we are not successful [and our neighbours take solace into God ordained destiny if we are :)].

So, to keep living a normal life - we need not worry about the contradiction much.

But when Nabi baksha calls on an unearthly hour, and expects one to answer this question - one can no longer ignore it. Below is what we ended up discussing that night (and i must admit, this contradiction had troubled me before - many a times i used to think, ki OK! by switching from one to other we manage to live a normal life, but what is the truth? same question which bothered Nabi that night.).

As per Islam (and i m sure other religions as well), religious texts can be produced in support of either of them***. But one fact that can't be ignored is - there is a Judgment day - and where one would be answerable for one's actions. If out of the above two, predestination is the only truth, then all actions of humans in this world are predestined - and if they are, then even the afterlife of a human is predestined - which ... which doesn't sound rational. Afterlife, we have been told, will be decided based on how we conduct ourselves in this world, so afterlife can't be predestined.

So, predestination, even if it is true - is definitely not the only truth (among the above two). 
Hence "free will" does exist. The massacres / zulms carried out by Hitlers and Yazeeds and Zionists and Suhrawardys and Modis of this world originated from their free wills (otherwise no point blaming them, right). Simlilarly the saintly works of Mother Teresas and Gandhis and MLKs and Raja Ram Mohan Roys of this world can trace their origine to the willingness (free will) of these people to do good (otherwise no point praising them).

But if "free will" is correct, what happens to "whatever happens God does it. 'Karne vaala Allah hai', we are nothing, immaterial, insignificant beings. Anything and everything - He has complete control over - and He does it - we don't matter"

Actually - this is also true. We are actually nothing ... immaterial, insignificant beings. True. We act out of our free will - true - but God's will / His act can at any point, override ours. Normally it doesn't.  True, He has absolute powers over everything - but He chooses to interfere with workings of the world rarely ... So normally, things happening (good and bad) are produce of our actions, our free wills (free because God has made it free, and He can at any time influence it / change it / X** it), but he normally chooses not to.

We see his interference when a Savitry's prayers return a Satyavan back to life after his death, when a couple told by docs of their inability to have kids visits Ajmer Sharif and is blessed with one (sometimes more), when a crying baby's feet hits to the ground in the middle of one of the biggest / driest deserts of the world and produces a stream of water which, even 2000 years later, continues to supply water to millions of pilgrims througout the year, when a baby Krishna is saved from a all powerful king Kansa, when within years of Prophet's prediction, two mighty empires, byzantine and persian, come crumbling down ... and numerous other places.

And He normally doesn't interfere cause He didn't when Godhara and Gujarat took place, he doesn't in Palestine and didn't in Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia and Taliban's Afghanistan. He normally doesn't :( - Almost never the voices of mazlooms of this world seem to be heard :( .. so He normally doesn't ... 
For all practical purposes, it can be assumed, that He doesn't.

So -- free will exists. But destiny can anytime override it. But it normally (for almost all practical purposes), doesn't.  Predestined things may or may not be exist - even if they do, its difficult to say what they are - may be death / qayamat etc ... may be not - may be some other things ... may be very few things.

Luck, is another matter ... a random number can be big or small - it is not predestined to be big or small - it just happens. That is luck. Luck is different from destiny.

For an analogy, imagine a creche ... imagine little kids in there, and an all powerful almighty (over them) supervisor. This supervisor keeps looking at the kids, keeps observing them, has sent messages to them from time to time, warning of punishment to kids who trouble other kids, and rewards for well behaved kids - She keeps watching over them all the time. If She wants, She can do anything - "uski marzi ke bina patta bhi nahi hile ga", nothing will happen if She doesn't want it to ... but She doesn't interfere - normally, that is. She sees one bully kid hitting other, that bully will get punishment as promised, but at that moment - though She could have prevented the bullying - she stays (apparentl) aloof ...
Kids live by their free will in the creche, a free will - which is given, and can be overriden, by Her - anytime.
One or two of the kids might be Her favorite (think Waliullaahs / Prophets / saints / great men&women) - and if they pray - She responds ... but normally She doesn't.

For all practical purposes, She doesn't :(.

* good - cause junk guys anyway don't listen to preachers
** XX any verb
*** religious texts are like that - can be produced, generally, for both, in fact multiple sides of any argument

PS: abhi-2 yaad aaya, even Arudhati Roy has called world "Hopelessly practical".

7 comments:

Faroha Liaqat said...

I must say I disagree with some points in your post...It is an ancient Greek failing that they considered God to be a distant deity who rarely interfered in the world' or individual's affairs (reference to a History of God by Karen Armstrong)...I thought at that moment , what rubbish! Of course God interferes.Each one of us feels it at some time or other in our life. Our prayers come true in the most extra ordinary ways sometimes...events change in a moment worldwide...I feel God's interference in each and every single aspect of my life...

Of course, as put it, God sometimes just watches things happening, but I'll paraphrase it...God very subtly turns things in the way HE wishes...Fo example, Israel thought the Gaza war will turn Hamas into a political failure and people will favor Fatah...God wanted otherwise and this war unexpectedly increased support for Fatah

There's an incident of Prophet Muhammad's life....Its something like this...that the prophet told people to tie their camels when coming to the mosque to pray, so that they may not run away....

If u believe in destiny/pre-destination, u would say the camels WILL run away and not tie them and go to pray...and when u come back they'll be gone and then we will put the blame squarely on God k ye to Allah ki marzi thi, bhaag gaye....No, Allah wants us to do our best in any matter and leave the result to HIM>...If we still don't get anything despite the best of our efforts, this is destiny

Hazrat Ali was once asked by a man k how much control do I have on my destiny? Ali asked the amn to stand on one leg, which he did. Then Ali asked him to take both his legs off ground.....He said I can't do that...Ali said, look, this is how much control u have over ur destiny

Aur jahan tak luck ki baat hai, Allah kuch ko day k azmaata hai aur kuch se lay k....aur ziada ki azmaish bohat mushkil hai

Sambaran said...

Brilliant post Shad!! It must have taken a good amount of diligence to write this post with all references and example-citings, in order to make a tough(to discuss) subject understandable.
Complete faith in god (I believe you are terming this as predestination in your post) need not necessarily lead to the type of contradiction you mentioned. You will do good things because god asked you to do it (not because farishta is recording your good/bad deeds). In course of life, you will face failures, injustice and mass-massacres. These are all of course as per god's 'marzi' but not for us to judge. May be the failures/injustices/massacres are actually fitting into a greater scheme of grand-good which our limited intellect is unable to predict. You keep on doing good because god asked you to do it. If something good happens to you, you again attribute it to god's will and keep on doing good/best-of-ability.
If you can have such complete faith in god, you do a lot of good work. Bad outcomes do not turn you into a sceptic. Good outcomes do not make you complacent. I have seen people who are leading their life on basis of such complete faith and are an asset to the family, society and thus humanity. Forget about afterlife, they are leading a very happy life right now because of this scepticism-free-continuous-flow-of-good-deeds.

Sambaran

PS: I must add that as of today, I am neither believer of god nor a disbeliever.The complete-faith which I wrote about, I do not have it(in spite of knowing the advantages of having such absolute faith). I will shamelessly jump to any of the camps in future if I feel the need of it. I hope that in case I jump towards faith in future, god won't complain.

shadkam77 said...

sambaran da,
"I hope that in case I jump towards faith in future, god won't complain."
lol, and still Can't stop smiling ... :).
God won't complain :), and if He does, it 'll be (to quote that little girl's dialog, to Jackie Chan in Rush Hour), "What took u so long" :)

Arijit said...

Remember what our English teacher said when I was in 5th std! We asked her if she believed in God - and why? She asked us: Do you study when you go for exams or do you not thinkin you will get thru because of god? But if you have studied do you sometimes forget what you read during exams? Thats what god controls! If u do your bit you are shortlisted - but after that - its HE who decides whether to give what you are striving for - or you need to strive more!

So far as why people do bad things - methinks theres God and devil who reside in us - and at every point in life we decide whether the good prevails or the bad - but these choices obviously has consequences which we pay in our living life mostly! Afterlife - I am not sure I understand that too much - except at times, when our wisdom fails to explain the cause-effect balance in this world we fallback on the catch-all-exception AFTERLIFE!

Arijit said...

Just felt while we are discussing this, prayer needs be touched upon as well!

It is common knowledge that confidence increases your odds at success! I feel prayer gives us that much needed confidence - not only have we worked hard to achieve our goal - but we have prayed to god as well and requested HIS support for success of our endeavours!
However, perhaps, its our work thats our prayer to HIM - Karmayoga! The remaining that we practice is all to make sure we are confident that we have called in HIS backup if the going gets (not-so?) tough!

Unknown said...

Dear Shad bhai,

Really it is a brilliant post ever and I am agreed with you and faroha also.
As per my knowledge and belief and with reference to all religion, Almighty God definition is: He has no any shape, size, color, gender etc. and he is not dependent on any of any these or other which is present not present in this universe. And in Holy Quraan so many places Almighty God has stressfully told that you/we don’t know anything what He knows. If we consider this point then our assumption that in Crèche where little kids are playing inside and God supervise them from outside but does not interfere much more even if any one of kid hit/loss to other kids or not. To understand the God and His thinking that He does not interfere much more restrict Him for not interfering and to give any kinds of examples to understand the God and His power, thinking, acts, etc., means He is like that /this. Then it may not fulfill the definition which should be…. if we give any example then definitely He will be dependent of this example also.
If you remind when our beloved Prophet (PBUH) went Meraaz and told to Ummat about the incident that he met, seen and talked with Almighty. All Ummat asked one question that how is our God. Replied beloved Prophet (PBUH) that there is no any such thing in this world to compare and to tell you about the God.
If we consider about predestination, free will to yah bhi complete definition of God ke bich me nahi aata kyoki, Jab tak hum uski powers ko estimate karte rahenge ki wah generally interfere nahi karta chahe wah free will achha ho(Gandhi, Mother Teresa) ya free will bura (Hitler, Modi) aur uske bina par koi bhi baat sochkar ya example dekar sirf apne aapko hum convince kar sakte hai. Asli baat to yah hai jo hame hamesha yah sochne ki taraf le jaye ki wah sarvashaktimaan hai jo kisi bhi duniyabi chij par depends nahi hai, even bando par bhi ki we pray usko kare ya nahi to definition complete hota hai.

Rahi baat ki agar insaan sahi hai to fir usko punishment kyo milta hai jo wah gunaah kiya hi naho. Jaise paida hone se pahle handicapped hona ya nek maa baap ka nek aulad jo kabhi gunah na kiya ho uska duniya se rukhsat hona.
Ek baat aur jab koi insaan bura hone ke baad bhi wah sari duniyabi khusiyo se paripurna rahta ho jo ek dusra insaan khub din raat mehnat aur prayer karke bhi nahi pata.
Ek bat aur jab koi insaan khub mehnat aur prayer karta ho aur usko wah sab milta hai jiski use tamanna thi.
Ek insaan bina mehnat aur prayer ke use was sab mil jata hai jise wah socha tak na ho.
Yah sari bate hum sochne par mazbur kart hai kyoki we have brain and we satisfies ourself by asuuming giving any example that God does this and will be like that/this ya aisa karta hai.

Agar hum ik insaan ke sari desires ko ek taraf likhe aur samne uske ek point de, to mere hisaab se sare insaan ka vaue or marks same hoga. Sabhi barabar honge except Probhet, Sahaba, Waliullah.


Desire in life Points
Sunnat e Rasul ki jaisi jindagi 75
Money & Property 5
Health 25
Famous for Free Will ( Good Work) 25
Beauty 10
Good Job 5
Good hamsafar 25
Saleh aur Nek Aulad 25
Foreign Job 5
Luxury Car 5
IAS/Top Post 10
Politician/Minister 5
Education & Degree 25
Sportsman 5
Famous for Free Will ( Bad Work) 5
etc

Agar kisi insaan ko sunnat e Rasul wali jindagi naseeb hoti hai to use 100 me se 75 mil gaya aur sirf use 25 aur mil sakta hai. Aur agar sath me nek saleh aulad ho ya good health to unki jindagi ho gayi.

Actually bahut kuch jyada samajh me nahi aata hai ki aakhir ye hai kya ye jindagi, but I have belief that God exist and He knows and see everything.
Mere hisab se kuch bhi Almighty God ke bare me sochna aur logically ourselves convince hona ek baat hai kyoki we have brain and we do not have more time to accept other than this ourselves given example kyoki hume apni jindagi me other than yellow colour wale sare desires pure karne hai.

I am not sure about predestination or free will.

Shiraz Anwar said...

Well written Shad bhai ..... same discussion happened with a friend few days back ... and we were jsut wondering if God behaves in such a human way then whats the pont of being God (Sorry Almightjee :( .. but you should interfere when some bully kid suppress mass of people .. we dont need miracle to happen but we need peace and unhurt life ..) ...contrary to this if we get to understand how God works then again what the point of being God, isn't??